Curse

Jetdoc · Oct 11, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

So, who's opposed to Inscriptions? Those that are scared of change. Because not all prices will drop on all items. Some items now worthless could gain value, some items now worth more could lose some value.

It's a brave new world, IF Inscriptions happen, and I guarantee there will still be plenty of stuff to farm and trade for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

here is the opposition *bottom line* Notice the hypocracy and selfishness here

that is right.......SHE......can have nice things because she.......WORKED...........so......hard.......in a GAME

and you cant unless you.......WORK......AS......HARD

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

There is something very wrong with this economy when the only items that can be sold are perfects. With the new update that Req 8 Golden Phoenix Blade would have sold for 10k for sure cause people would know they can salvage their 15^50 mod and slap it right on there.

Wow...that is about all that I can say.

Making generalizations in a thread like this is a very BAD way to get your point across.

1. Being "opposed" to inscriptions has absolutely nothing to do with being "scared of change". Most of the people that are opposed have formed a very reasonable expectation of what the introduction will do to the market for weapons based on (1) previous examples of similar changes, such as the introduction of green items and (2) anticipation of the economic forces that would likely come into play (i.e. mudflation, lack of gold sinks, etc.).

2. At least from my standpoint, being "opposed" to inscriptions has absolutely nothing do to with "selfishness". Quite to the contrary - I have stated that I will personally gain from the change, but I do not believe that the change is good for GuildWars in general. Why? Because (1) I believe it will negatively impact the economy, as described above, and (2) it will almost completely eliminate an entire facet of the game for those people that like the see a "reward" for continued "hardcore" PvE play. I've stated my reasons for both of those time and time again.

3. Death by Armor - your example above is very, very flawed. Yes, you could sell your req 8 GPB for some amount in the new system. BUT, you have to realize that for your gold, almost perfect req 8 GPB there will be NUMEROUS other white, purple and gold req 8 GPB that had been previously unsellable (and merchanted) that will directly compete with your blade. What does that mean? You still may have a very difficult time in selling your weapon.

In addition - this has a very bad side effect - all OTHER GPB's (i.e. without a req 7 or req 8) will now become worthless. If that 14>50 GPB you have had a requirement of 10 or higher, it becomes merchant material...when you probably could have sold it for 3-4K on the open market or in our auction site.

So, in short, this will open up the market to a few select items (i.e. non-perfect items with very low requirements and non-max items with perfect inscriptions), but in turn will almost eliminate the market for any other items that don't meet this criteria. This will make the "only wanting perfect" item problem you describe much, much worse, IMO.

sumrtym · Oct 11, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

I would say that if farming for the perfect weapon could be fun, why not doing the missions again? But really my point was about doing them again with a new character and new set of skills. Yes, it is fun to do it again with a completely different style. There's a difference between playing them as a warrior, an MM, a nuker, a monk etc.

And I can tell from the attitudes of this self-appointed "trader elite" who so like to deal with other people they don't see the fun in helping others make it through a mission, or teaching someone new how to play.

Their vew is a self-centered, selfish one of this gaming world, and they can't understand anyone that doesn't share it. If you don't, you're "anti-capitalist". I think the majority of those arguing are people who enjoy being rich in a game who probably aren't in real-life (read lots of teenagers who don't work, or work minimum wage), and so are happy achieving something meaningless in a game they don't have in the real world.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

FUN ....NOT HAVE TO GRIND FROM JEFF STRAIN HIMSELF

It's a great point that a few people here should take note of. Instead of sitting there insisting that 'MMORPGs are about this, MMORPGS are not about that, I am more qualified than the devs to say what GW is supposed to be about,' (never mind the fact that GW is not billed as an MMORPG), they should think about why MMORPGs are structured the way they are. To get the most mileage out of people paying a monthly fee. GW has no monthly fee, so why should it just arbitrarily conform to that same structure? Ah well, those are the same people who are so stuck in the idea of an MMORPG that they are baffled as to why Anet doesn't pander to them.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 11, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Is there a problem with me calling it unfair that Anet give handouts to the newbies where others had to work so hard to obtain those things? I held this position when +5 energy weapons were brought back and thousands who paid 100K + XX ectos were screwed over. It seems to me that many changes are done without thought to individuals.

And here is the selfishness and hyprocrisy of the anti-inscriptionists again. It's always whats good for THEM instead of what's good for everyone.

If we held to the attitude that things should never improve or change just because people in the past had to work harder to get them, we'd still be in the dark ages. Why have progress? Why invent cars because that would be unfair to our great great grandparents who had to go everywhere by horse and carriage! Let's never improve Guild Wars because it would be unfair to the "veteran" players who had to put up with older features!

Seriously, that's just mind boggling what some of you are bringing up as "points" in this argument...

seut · Oct 11, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

I was just using that as an example. However I still think gold items will retain some value. I don't see a Req 8 Gold somewhat rare skin item regardless of dmg mod going much below 10k.

I've tried to sell a guildmate's pair of Oni Daggers (req.9 15/-5e) on guru auction for several weeks without a single bid (starting with 1k).
This proves (for myself), that if supply is much larger than demand, the market for certain items will be dead.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 11, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

And I can tell from the attitudes of this self-appointed "trader elite" who so like to deal with other people they don't see the fun in helping others make it through a mission, or teaching someone new how to play.

Their vew is a self-centered, selfish one of this gaming world, and they can't understand anyone that doesn't share it. If you don't, you're "anti-capitalist". I think the majority of those arguing are people who enjoy being rich in a game who probably aren't in real-life (read lots of teenagers who don't work, or work minimum wage), and so are happy achieving something meaningless in a game they don't have in the real world.

Great job describing yourself, you can't understand anyone that don't share you point of view. Its a wonder that right after I say I support lower prices for rare weapons, only to be called trader elites.

I help people do missions quite often, and its usually more hassle then what its worth. For one trying to help people with a ranger/mesmer/assasssin/warrior is OUT OF QUESTION. If you don't go back to the mission as a monk, a SS/MM necro, or a FIRE nuker ele, you can't even help people. Just yesturday I spent 2 hours trying to get my ranger into an arborstone group because everyone wants monk and MM. And I crazy for being turned off from doing the same missions over and over again?

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 11, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

I've tried to sell a guildmate's pair of Oni Daggers (req.9 15/-5e) on guru auction for several weeks without a single bid (starting with 1k).
This proves (for myself), that if supply is much larger than demand, the market for certain items will be dead.

You're right. The market is dead. I mean if a single item didnt get sold then it's got to mean the market is dead right?

Phoenix Ex · Oct 11, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Yep, the current system of inscriptions will ensure that his *REQ 9* won't ever be sold ever....since req 7 and req 8 will be so easy to get then. It'll be the same for every weapon for that matter.

The market won't be exactly dead, it'll shrivel up like a dying bug.
Not that its exactly a bad thing since I don't need to trade anymore, with enough gold to last an eternity

seut · Oct 11, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

You're right. The market is dead. I mean if a single item didnt get sold then it's got to mean the market is dead right?

If an item is unsellable in over 3weeks, because the market has a high supply rate and little demand, THEN YES IT'S DEAD.

(sry for caps, but this is directly meant for Sid whose first reply to me started with the word "Pfft")

sumrtym · Oct 11, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

I help people do missions quite often, and its usually more hassle then what its worth. For one trying to help people with a ranger/mesmer/assasssin/warrior is OUT OF QUESTION. If you don't go back to the mission as a monk, a SS/MM necro, or a FIRE nuker ele, you can't even help people. Just yesturday I spent 2 hours trying to get my ranger into an arborstone group because everyone wants monk and MM. And I crazy for being turned off from doing the same missions over and over again?

And see, I consider dealing with WTS/WTB spam more hassle than it's worth, or doing 500 runs to get a zodiac with stats I want and still not getting it "frustrating" to say the least.

I for one don't have any problem helping with any character. But, obviously, some missions require / are easier with certain characters and there aren't many there. Call me crazy, then, but bringing that character to help them get their team and complete might be just what we're talking about sometimes when we say "helping". <gasp> What a novel concept!

Phoenix Ex · Oct 11, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

And see, I consider dealing with WTS/WTB spam more hassle than it's worth, or doing 500 runs to get a zodiac with stats I want and still not getting it "frustrating" to say the least.

I for one don't have any problem helping with any character. But, obviously, some missions require / are easier with certain characters and there aren't many there. Call me crazy, then, but bringing that character to help them get their team and complete might be just what we're talking about sometimes when we say "helping". <gasp> What a novel concept!

Guess what, I am NOT a trader!

General classification FTL. I don't find helping people continuously with the same missions over and over fun. Just like you don't like dealing with WTS/WTB spammers, I don't like dealing with rushing wammos and tanking eles.

98% of the times when I actually tries to help a people, I get flamed just because I can't save a tanking ele trying to tank a lvl 28 boss, and the fact that I don't run at a speed of light to save a wammo a radar away, or a MM using botm every time its recharged expecting me to heal him everytime. I am flamed for not bringing flesh golem and instead was using aura of the lich to spam heal my "lesser minions". I got flamed for having firestorm on my skill bar even though I was using it as a scarecrow exclusively.

I like going with my guildies to work on a goal, if you somehow have a problem with that and that I am a selfish elite trader bastard because of it, then be my guest.

Mordakai · Oct 11, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Wow...that is about all that I can say.

Making generalizations in a thread like this is a very BAD way to get your point across.

1. Being "opposed" to inscriptions has absolutely nothing to do with being "scared of change". Most of the people that are opposed have formed a very reasonable expectation of what the introduction will do to the market for weapons based on (1) previous examples of similar changes, such as the introduction of green items and (2) anticipation of the economic forces that would likely come into play (i.e. mudflation, lack of gold sinks, etc.).

I'm glad you brought up Greens.... do you think they were a bad idea?

Greens, Collector's, Crafters all work to bring down the price of certain items, correct? So, if Inscriptions get released, it's not like there isn't a precedent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

So, in short, this will open up the market to a few select items (i.e. non-perfect items with very low requirements and non-max items with perfect inscriptions), but in turn will almost eliminate the market for any other items that don't meet this criteria. This will make the "only wanting perfect" item problem you describe much, much worse, IMO.

Oh come on! How much are high req, non-max, non-perfect items worth now?

Yes, some items worth a lot now will be worth less. It will be a different economy, that's why I said "scared of change". The principles of the economy will be the same: Items that are rare and perfect will still sell for more than items that aren't. I don't think anyone is arguing that point...

What we WILL see (hopefully), is greater access to clean skins and mods. This is what I think the high point of Inscriptions is: simply having access to a game component we really had no control over before.

I really don't see what the problem is with that! As you yourself admit, there will still be high priced items for traders and farmers to work towards. And for the rest of us, there will be greater access to skins and mods. It's win-win.

sumrtym · Oct 11, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

I like going with my guildies to work on a goal, if you somehow have a problem with that and that I am a selfish elite trader bastard because of it, then be my guest.

Way to go off on a tangent. I think I was referring to your standing around for 2 hours with an assasin when everyone was looking for a monk or mm and claiming you were trying to "help" (that means not doing the mission for yourself per say).

Very excitable, aren't ya?

Mordakai · Oct 11, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Let's stay on topic, please.

Cybah · Oct 11, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

you will be happier the first days. then you've lost the last dreams you had in gw.

Mordakai · Oct 11, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

you will be happier the first days. then you've lost the last dreams you had in gw.

Who are you talking to?

Funny, when I read the Guild Wars box, I didn't read a sell point saying: "Enjoy grinding for high value loot only available to hardcore players!"

You were never promised million gold weapons to strive for. It, IMO, goes against the whole GW philosophy of "less grind".

In any case, there still will be high priced items. You will still have some insane goal to reach towards.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 11, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

If an item is unsellable in over 3weeks, because the market has a high supply rate and little demand, THEN YES IT'S DEAD.

(sry for caps, but this is directly meant for Sid whose first reply to me started with the word "Pfft")

Yes yes. The market is dead. Just look how empty the trade forum and the LA and Kaineng districts are.

I cant believe you can say that just because your single item didnt sell. Not EVERYTHING sells. Not even in the best flourishing economy.

Abnaxus · Oct 11, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I don't think that hardcore players will lose any motivation in game if they cannot aim any more to possess "the most unique item in game".

That's just lack of imagination. Simply, give yourself a different goal.

Take an example from the great capitalists. Maybe, when Aristotele Onassis started from the scratch, his goal was becoming owner of a ship. When he was able to have his first ship, he didn't stop because he had already fulfilled his dream, but his target became to have more than one, then eventually a huge fleet, then buy other companies and so on.

For the "GW capitalists", you will have no problem if you won't be able to buy a single crystalline for 10 million. Give yourself the target to buy 10 crystallines of 1 million each.
You're probably going to have 10 chars and 30 heroes, so your targets could be
- have each of your warrior heroes equipped with perfect crystalline and perfect gloom shield (10 millions)
- fissure armore for all of your chars (15 millions)
- KoBD for all your chars (XX millions)
- if heroes can be equipped with FoW armor, then 30 armors (45 millions)

<insert whatever>

No one of the pro-inscriptionists wants to put limitations to the targets you can decide for yourself, and so we ask you kindly not to put limitations or player-created economic barriers to what we would like to do in the game.

Mordakai · Oct 11, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

No one of the pro-inscriptionists wants to put limitations to the targets you can decide for yourself, and so we ask you kindly not to put limitations or player-created economic barriers to what we would like to do in the game.

Well said. And, keep in mind, those "barriers" will still exist, but to a lesser extent.

(oh, and before someone else notes it, no you cannot give your Heroes FoW armor, or any other kind of armor! Their armor increases automatically by level.)

Robin_Anadri · Oct 11, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

If an item is unsellable in over 3weeks, because the market has a high supply rate and little demand, THEN YES IT'S DEAD.

(sry for caps, but this is directly meant for Sid whose first reply to me started with the word "Pfft")

No, it means the market FOR THAT ITEM is flooded. This is presuming you can prove that you can't sell the item because so many other like items are for sale that you are unable to find a buyer at your lowest acceptable selling price. That's an important distinction - the market for an item is never DEAD, you can always find somebody who will trade you nothing for the item.

Gotta do something with that MBA...